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Subject: TML Bundle #226: Msgs 2749-2759
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Date: Wed Aug 14 21:00:10 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #226: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2749  09-Aug-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN And it just gets weirder.... << Welcome to Pa
2750  09-Aug-91 George William He Re: (2742) MT Starship Combat rules... << Cri
2751  10-Aug-91 samsung!quest.ath RE: Complaints about Agility << Those unhappy
2752  10-Aug-91 samsung!quest.ath Noble PCs << I'm running a play-by-BBS game o
2753  11-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Gyroscopic Attitude Control Systems << Juerge
2754  12-Aug-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Revised Agility Calculations << KELLOGG@d
2755  12-Aug-91 carson@tron.bwi.W Re: (2748) Proposed article about TML << Make
2756  12-Aug-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Nobility in Traveller << A very good article 
2757  12-Aug-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Agility..... << >Ok, High Guard functioned li
2758  12-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au The SHADO fleet (TL8 System Defence) << Hi, S
2759  12-Aug-91 George William He re: nobles << Actually, (contrary to Metlay's

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2749
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 17:42:23 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: And it just gets weirder....


Welcome to Part 6 of the ongoing saga of Grant and Company. If you think
things are confusing NOW, you should have been here to see these poor guys
trying to roleplay it! |->

metlay

- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------

PART 6

Terra, mid-1119

	"Captain?"
	Grant opened his eyes slowly. Two strangers were leaning over
him. One was a man in his mid-20s, somehow foppish even in a nondescript 
prison coverall; the other was a rail-thin, immaculately shaven fellow
with thinning blonde hair and--
	Lord Corris's son. The family portrait in the shipwright's hall!
	No. No. That wasn't it. A noble, but not a Corris--a Tchorgin.
Yes. Mikhail Tchorgin, professional hostage. And Edison, professional
bitgeek. Hudson's bitgeek. MY bitgeek....
	Grant winced. "Ouch. This hurts my head...."
	"You and everyone else, Captain." The muscular blonde god got slowly
up from his seated position at the cell door and stalked over to Grant. He
was perfect, Grant noted absently. Nothing missing. Nothing.
	"How do you feel?" Nyborg's voice was cool.
	"Like my brain's been put through a juicer." Grant sat up, tried
to get to his feet, stopped. He looked around him slowly, suspicions flaring
and dying and flaring up again. Edison regarded him carefully, Tchorgin with 
a look of mild concern, Nyborg with a paranoid scowl. 'Captain,' they'd said. 
Captain WHO? 
	Edison made eye contact, then flicked his gaze upward for a moment. 
Grant followed the glance. His brow furrowed as he saw the tiny hole in the
ceiling above him. Oho, he thought. No wonder they're playing it crafty.
	He looked past Tchorgin, to where Newton was crouched over Tsogukh.
The huge Vargr was curled into a fetal position, rocking back and forth 
gently and whimpering softly in a language Grant didn't recognize as the
Transform dialect of Vuakedh that Kherkhoulloth spoke....
	He strode over to the pair, pushing gently past Tchorgin, who gave 
him a sympathetic pat on the shoulder as he passed. "How is he?"
	Newton looked up, hair in his eyes. He started to speak, looked 
annoyed, flicked the hair clumsily back from his face. "Pretty bad, sir."
	Grant seized on the simple gesture like a hawk on a ferret. He's not
used to having hair, he thought with grim satisfaction. Newton's got a full
head of hair-- but Fell DOESN'T! More and more interesting.
	"They didn't even work him over for as long as they did the rest of 
us," Fell (Newton?) continued. "They brought him back here after only a few 
minutes, and the med orderly looked scareder than hell. He's been in this
shape ever since.... I can't get through to him at all."
	"Lovely, just LOVELY." Grant found the Hudsonism came easily to mind.
He looked at Fell carefully. "And how about YOU?"
	"I think," Fell said, weighing each word carefully, "I stood up under
this much better than the rest of you. I have a certain natural resistance to
this kind of punishment. And after all, Captain, we should be grateful we
were only worked on by rank amateurs-- the Zhodani would have wrung us out
and hung us up to dry by now." 
	"True enough." Grant got up and stretched, yawning. "So has anyone
been able to piece together what happened?"
	"I remember landing and trying to unload our cargo...." Newton's 
voice was hesitant.
	"We were accosted by StarPort Authority troopers and forced at 
gunpoint into a lockup-van," Tchorgin sniffed. "Plebeians."
	"They put us in a cell, and one by one they started taking people
out, starting with you, Captain," Nyborg continued grimly. "And everyone came 
back feeling like, well, like...."
	"Pling pling pling...."
	Grant turned around slowly. Edison was gazing vacantly into space;
he was softly singing a little song, just three notes over and over.
	"Pling pling pling, pling pling pling--"
	"Edison!" Hudson seized his arm roughly. "You gone nuts on us?"
	"Hm?" Edison's eyes focussed slowly on his commanding officer. "Uh, 
no sir. I was either (a) daydreaming (b) exhausted (c) suffering from as yet
unquantified aftereffects of the interrogation."
	"If that's what it was," Tchorgin snapped irritably. "What sort of 
interrogation doesn't involve asking any questions?"
	"One where they don't need to talk to you," Nyborg said quietly.
"If they suspected some kind of--"
	He was cut off by a yelp of sudden terror from the floor. Tsogukh 
uncurled from his huddled position abruptly and looked about him, seemingly
not recognizing any of the faces around him. He backed into a corner, holding 
up a hand as if to ward off a blow and whimpering in a garbled mixture of 
Vuakedh, Galanglic, and unintelligible gibberish.
	"O no please bahyakhta eenay Vfkhayikh arrrghafthaengzak I promise
kyulyolvai aenrraghz oun kokaasha eegh Urzaeng faeng faeng don' hurt me...."
	"Hey, hey, hey," Fell soothed, leaning down near the terrified Vargr,
"Don't be afraid. It's US. Your FRIENDS, remember?" He began pointing to 
faces. "Captain Hudson, Edison, Nyborg, Tchorgin...."
	"SHEVEK!" The word burst out of Tsogukh's throat in a shriek, and he
threw himself forward and wrapped his arms around Fell's knees, his sobs 
redoubling in strength.
	The others merely looked confused, but Grant's eyes narrowed. Shevek.
What was it Sonderberg had said.... 'It'd be interesting to see what sort of 
a song Shevek would sing.' Another piece of the puzzle?
	"Shhhh...." Fell patted the crying alien's fur uncomfortably. "You 
know me, old buddy. Newton. Remember, Tsogukh?"
	The Vargr sat bolt upright as if stabbed. His eyes focussed into 
killing slits. "TSSSSSSOHHHHHHHHHH-----" He leapt to his feet, fists 
clenched. "--GUKH!" He shhok himself from muzzle to tail as if drying himself 
off, and looked around him suspiciously. His voice dropped an octave.
	"Well, what are YOU all staring at?"
	Newton sighed in relief. "Thought we'd lost you there for a minute,
friend," he said easily. "You okay?"
	"NO, I'm not okay!" Tsogukh began to pace the small cell angrily. 
"What the hell did they do to me? Was it drugs? Torture? WHAT? I'm so messed 
up I can't even remember my own name...."
	"You won't have to worry about that for much longer."
	Everyone whirled at the new voice from beyond the door. Through the
viewslit, they could just glimpse a helmeted head outside in the hall.
	"Time to go, gen'l'men. Any false moves, you die painful instead of 
clean. Got that?" The door swung open, and a burly SolSec guard in combat
armor strode into the room, Gauss pistol at the ready. "Turn away from me, 
all of you, and hands behind backs to be cuffed. I can cuff you one-handed, 
and I'll shoot if you give me any guff." 
	Tsogukh growled and coiled himself for a spring.
	"Ease OFF!" Hudson's voice nearly cracked with suppressed terror. 
"Stupid furball, you'll get us ALL killed!"
	Tsogukh's ears went back against his skull, and he slowly turned 
and put his hands behind his back. "Coward," he muttered under his breath.
	One by one, the cuffs were put on. Grant tested his gingerly, hoping 
that the circulation wouldn't be cut off from his hands.
	They loosened slightly. A ratchet clicked, almost inaudibly. 
	Jammed open!
	Grant stopped moving his arms, and looked over his shoulder at 
Edison, who was suddenly concentrating hard on something only he could see.
Fell was looking down at the floor in front of him. Feeling the Captain's
eyes upon him, he twitched an eyelid in a brief wink. 
	As they were herded out of the cell and down the sterile hallway,
Grant made eye contact with the guard, who regarded him carefully.
	"So what happens to us now?"
	"You're gonna get blown up trying to escape," the guard grinned back 
at him. "Back to the starport, back in your ship, liftoff to a hundred 
meters, and WHAMMO! Taken out by the defense batteries! No evidence left to 
sift through, nothin'. Neat as neat can be."
	"Delightful," Nyborg sighed. They piled down a flight of metal stairs 
and out of a thick security door. The heat hit them like a blanket of fire,
sweat springing out on their faces in an instant. Tsogukh began to pant.
	The door opened out on a courtyard. The blazing sun had raised the 
temperature in the open court to the point where the air rippled and made
vision difficult. An unmarked police van was floating at the gate, and they 
were herded aboard by the guard, who sat down next to them with his pistol 
covering them all loosely. After a moment, another guard came in and sat down 
next to them, a Gauss rifle slung over his shoulder and a wary look on his 
face. The first guard looked at him, then at Grant, and gave a tiny shake of 
his head. 
	The sliding door slammed shut on them, and through the glass 
partition up front they saw a driver take his place at the controls, and the
gravid form of Agent Sonderberg huff in beside him. Sonderberg turned and 
waved into the back compartment at Grant, who pointedly ignored him. The 
agent grinned, and picked up an intercom mike from the dash.
	"Just a few more minutes, Becker."
	Damn right, Becker thought grimly. You fat bag of cancer, I'm gonna 
give YOU 'Chief Special Operative in the Terra Theater'! Take MY job, will 
you? Just a few more minutes....
	The van lurched into motion. No one spoke during the brief period it
took to cross the threshold and speed across the starport to where the 
Inexplicable was docked. The first guard relaxed after a moment, letting his 
gun hand rest on his knee, within reach of Nyborg. His eyes closed.
	"Pay attention, idiot," the second guard snarled.
	"Shaddup," was the yawned reply. "They're cuffed, ain't they?"
	Grant was watching through the front window as best he could. Down 
the service road and through the milling crowds, across the main thorofare, 
around a corner...and there before them was the blast shield for Landing
Pad 7-3-26. The automatic doors slid open exposing the long tunnel through
the shield to the inner landing area. Hudson did some fast math in his head.
Twenty kilometers per hour, say ten meters of tunnel--two seconds. It was 
going to have to be perfect. 
	Nyborg yawned and stretched, gathering his legs under his bench seat.
Tsogukh tried to scratch one hind leg with the other. Fell sat upright, 
trying to see their destination as the van glided smoothly into the mouth of 
the tunnel.
	Grant pulled convulsively on his cuffs. For a harrowing instant, the 
ratchet seemed to catch, then pulled free with a soft zipping noise. Beside 
him, the first guard yelled, "Hey, what the--"
	Simultaneously there was a loud thud and an "Oof!" From the other 
guard. Close on that was a veritable cacaphony of yells, growls, grunts, and 
scuffling noises. Sonderberg looked back through the window, and scowled in
frustration as the reflected sunlight from the tunnel's mouth on the glass
obscured his vision. He reached behind him blindly for the dash.
	Becker's voice was tight. "Nyborg! Door lock!"
	There was the thunk of a gauss shot, and the sliding door slammed 
open. Becker grabbed the door frame and swung himself in a tight arc around 
the frame, grabbing and pulling open the passenger door. At that moment the 
van burst out into the blazing sun again, almost in the shadow of the 
Inexplicable, and the thin man and the fat were rolling in the sand.
	The van screeched to a halt. The first guard was thrown free. 
Scrambling to his feet, he hissed to Fell, who was crawling after him,
"WNRK! Yell it, don't spell it!" And with that, he was sprinting for the
tunnel mouth. 
	Nyborg and Edison vaulted from the van, sprinting for the ship. 
Becker had managed to get free of Sonderberg and was staggering up the ramp,
his rival in hot pursuit. Suddenly a gleaming spherical object appeared in 
the open hatchway, hovering for a moment and then swooping down the ramp. It 
was the secretary-bot Hudson had nicknamed Hector.
	The sight of the familiar robot made Hudson pause for a moment, and 
Sonderberg took advantage of the delay, charging up and grabbing him in a 
hammerlock. "Got you!" he gurgled, panting and beet-red with exertion. "Never
get away!" 
	"Get clear, GET CLEAR!" Hector shrieked, bowling Edison over. 
"Someone's initiated an automatic takeoff sequence! We only have a few 
seconds--"
	"YOW!" Edison wasn't a gambling man. He skidded to a halt and turned 
back to the van, only in time to see the senseless body of the driver crumple 
to the sand. Fell leaped behind the wheel, and the van spun up off the ground
and into motion, Tchorgin kicking the dead guard out of the back and Tsogukh 
scrambling to get onto the roof. Edison leaped for the van, as the 
Inexplicable's thruster plates suddenly burst into agonizing radiance and the 
rusty old freighter began to lift off the ground, Becker and Sonderberg still
grappling madly on the rocking, shaking gangplank. With a mighty heave, 
Nyborg leaped and grabbed hold of the end of the ramp just before it rose out 
of reach. In a few seconds, he had gained the ramp's surface, and charged 
into the fray.
	Sonderberg looked up, just in time to scream in agony as a round from 
the Gauss pistol ripped into his shoulder. He let go of Becker's throat, and
the semiconscious agent rolled down the ramp and off the end, plummeting 
toward the ground below.
	"GOTCHA!" Tsogukh's powerful haunches flexed under the sudden strain
as he caught his commander's limp body in his arms. "DRIVE, FELL!"
	The van spun away into the blast tunnel, unnoticed as Sonderberg and
Nyborg faced off on the pitching ramp. Nyborg looked over his shoulder. They 
were ten meters high and rising. Any second now, the defense batteries would
open fire....
	"Nyborg, for God's SAKE!" Sonderberg sobbed, his pudgy fingers 
clutching at the empty air that had been his worst rival's throat a moment 
ago. "You're a Loyalist! And so was CHANDRA! It doesn't have to be like 
this-- we can HEAL you...!"
	The smile that answered him was calm and self-assured. "I am 
Daryavayush Michael O'Connor, FSO, and native of Iddamakur. Your death will 
be the most important of my career. I'm sorry that I can't take credit for 
it...."
	Sonderberg sank to his knees, the blood loss making him dizzy. "Uh?"
	"You're about to be killed by the attack YOU ORDERED." They were 
above the wall now. Far away, O'Connor saw the plumes of the missile 
launchers as they fired. He shook his head in disbelief. 
	"Another shining example of SolSec efficiency."
	They were the last words he ever spoke.

	The van shot flailing out of the blast tunnel and shot across the
service alleyway, rounding the bend past the neighboring wall a bare second
before the blast sent a column of roaring fire down the tunnel after it. The
flash lit up the sky to impossible brightness, and the crash and roar of the
Inexplicable's funeral pyre mingled with the screams in the crowd as burning
debris rained down on the port. 
	"This is a fine set of circumstances," Edison remarked as the van 
bucked under the blast wave. "We are now (1) on a foreign planet under 
hostile control (2) wanted by the police, SPA, and SolSec (3) minus our best 
combat expert (4) mentally in less than peak form (5) penniless (6) without
identification papers (7) minus our only transportation off-planet (8) 
dressed in prison garb (9) exhausted (10) hungry and (11) apparently in 
no position to even attempt considering intelligent options as to our next 
move."
	"No problem," Tchorgin smiled. Or was it Jaeger?

TO BE CONTINUED

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2750
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 17:28:40 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re:  (2742) MT Starship Combat rules...

Critical Hits for the most part didn't worry me that much.  A bridge hit is
about the same as it was before...same effects.  If you bothered to design in
a second bridge (not that anyone is, as far as I can see) to your MT ship, it
would nullify one bridge hit.
	I also don't know about undoing the weapon hit/battery correspondence.
Admittedly, it's a not well supported artificiality, but it will ruin some
game mechanics and slow things down a lot as you figure out how reconfiguring
weapons can be done... 8-)

	And unfortunately I seem to have missed the second set of erratta.  If
someone would copy them and mail them to me, I'd be much appreciative...
(will pay postage if you like 8-)

- - -george

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2751
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 91 21:33:19 CST
From: samsung!quest.athenanet.com!dominic@uunet.UU.NET (Dominic Duvall)
Subject: RE: Complaints about Agility

Those unhappy with agility in MegaTraveller (or any other aspect of the
rules) are STRONGLY urged to sign up for GEnie and visit the MegaTraveller
category of the role-playing games forum.  Those who developed MT and
who are working on it have a VERY active presence there, so that would
be a good place to (a) hear their explanations for why agility (or whatever)
is handled the way it is, and (b) make your suggestions on better ways
to handle it.

GEnie is also the home of HIWG (History of the Imperium Working Group),
a fan-based resource development group.

Dominic Duvall			 | uunet!nstar!pallas!quest!dominic
The Quest, BBS for F&SF and RPGs | dominic@quest.athenanet.com
(217) 546-7608, 3/12/2400 baud   |

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2752
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 91 21:51:27 CST
From: samsung!quest.athenanet.com!dominic@uunet.UU.NET (Dominic Duvall)
Subject: Noble PCs

I'm running a play-by-BBS game of MegaTraveller in which one of the
characters is a duke and another is a duchess.

Does anyone have any information about nobility in the Imperium?  In
particular, how involved is a duke or duchess in actually running their
dukedom or duchy?  If they decided to go galloping across the galaxy,
would they be chastised for neglecting their duties?  Or would it be quite
common to leave the operation of the dukedom or duchy in the hands of some
type of administrator?

What about special rights of these high nobles?  When visiting a planet
with a high law level, can they expect to be allowed to keep their weapons?

How much control, if any, do they have over planets within their dukedom
or duchy?  As I understand it, the Imperium merely rules the space BETWEEN
the stars, rather than the planets themselves.

How much access could they get to meeting with government leaders on
planets outside of their area?

How widely known is a duke or duchess outside of their area?  If they are
out in public on a planet a couple of subsectors away from their home, would
people be pointing and saying, "Look, it's Duke So-and-So"?  If they arrive
at a planet, will they be met at the starport by an official delegation, a
brass band, and a flock of reporters?

How much financial power would you say a duke or duchess typically has?  The
income from the pension as given in the MT rules just doesn't seem high
enough for someone who in theory rules such a vast area.  At the same time,
however, I'm somewhat reluctant to tell them they have vast resources at
their disposal, as that would tend to upset game balance.

Dominic Duvall			 | uunet!nstar!pallas!quest!dominic
The Quest, BBS for F&SF and RPGs | dominic@quest.athenanet.com
(217) 546-7608, 3/12/2400 baud   |

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2753
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1991 17:33 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Gyroscopic Attitude Control Systems

Juergen Kirsch writes of the destructive potential of the gyroscopic
control system.

Frankly, who ever wrote up that idea for traveller didn't think about it
for too long.

The Starship Operators manual says these things are used at speeds
approaching 1 million RPM.  Ok, lets assume a gyro 1 meter in radius, and
say 1000 kilograms.  (sound reasonable?)
The centifugal force felt at the edge of this ring (1 million RPM) is some
thing about 11 billion+ times the force of gravity.
Nothing, Not even an ancient artifact will hold up to that.
Ok, Now, what about the potential energy of this gyro?  Well, according
to the old back of the envelope it has the equivalent energy of a
1.22 kiloton bomb.  According to the S.O.M. these things are kept at
"near" vacuum, at the center of mass of the ship.
	Well, who out there wants a 1.22 kiloton bomb at the spine of
their ship?  The manual talks about the extensive precautions needed to
protect the ship from the gyro.  Jettison systems, and an 'Inertial
Braking system' which reduces the energy of the gyro.
The precautions sound shakey at best and wrecklessly dangerous at worst.
If the gyro started to have problems, It would be a danger to the ship in
1/100,000 of a second.  No Warning.  If a frictionless bearing started to
go out, it would tear itself to ribbons before the computer ever knew what
hit it.  And when that gyro hits a structural member it will fly apart
under 11 billion G's and destroy the ship totally.  The center of mass of the
ship is going to be where the spinal mount (if any) runs, and it will
probably be where the keel of the ship runs as well.  One little mishap
and your ship snaps in half.
	As to the advantages of the gyro.  Frankly, I don't see any.
They have gone to great lengths in the Manual to describe how the
thrust from the main drive is articulated sufficiently so that the
classic 1G ship can take off vertically.  Are they trying to say that
turning on axis is more difficult than hovering?  It makes no sence.

Add to the fact that the gyro is at the center of mass of the ship.
In order to turn the ship you will have to exert enourmous force on
the gyro.  The thrusters have a much larger lever arm and it will be
MUCH easier.  The problem is analogous to turning a bolt with your
bare hands and turning the same bolt with a twenty meter long
wrench.

Looking back on what I said, computers ought to be fast enough to recognize
a problem in the gyro.  But they won't be able to do much about it, and if
something goes wrong with the safety systems, you are DEAD.  A braking system
has to absorb 1.22 kilotons worth of energy to prevent disaster.

Scott Kellogg

Actually, I don't like the sound of the inertial braking system either,
It makes it sound as though it absorbs the inertia.  This sounds to much
like a physics nullifier to me.  I always thought of inertial compensators
as grav plates which increase or decrease in output dependant upon the
acceleration produced by the drives.

Mr. Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2754
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Revised Agility Calculations
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 9:40:03 BST

KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
> "Excess Power": Is the amount of power left over after all systems have
> been powered (Sensors, Weapons, Drives, Environ, Comm, etc. etc.)

In any ship I designed under High Guard, "excess power" by your definition
was zero, or slightly positive - I tried to make the power plant just capable
of powering everything on the ship, usually adding a few more lasers if I had
spare power available.

My problem is that I have too much experience in High Guard, and keep
forgetting that some people (not you, Scott! :-) are trying to design
MT ships with no prior knowledge of High Guard.  I suspect that the MT
authors have the same problem.

> 		(Power req for maneuver drive + "excess" Power)
> Agility=	-----------------------------------------------*10
> 			Loaded Weight

This could finally give the ship's engineer something interesting to do in
combat - some sort of task roll to arrange the power distribution to the
various systems demanding power.  Let's see ...

To distribute power among the ship's systems:
Routine, Starship Engineering, INT, 6 seconds
Referee: Exceptional success means that the engineer has 1% more power
available than the power plant's normal output; perhaps he has been clever
with the timing (route power to the sensors, then route power to the weapons)
or perhaps he has managed to coax the power plant into operating a little
more efficiently.  Exceptional failure means that the engineer has 1% less
power to use; he has been clumsy, or the power plant is playing up.


I leave it to experienced MT referees to alter such things as difficulty level,
time increment and results of exceptional success/failure.

"Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil> writes:
> 
> > > Agility may not exceed maneuver drive rating.
> > > (No more agility=6 1-G drive ships...)
> > 
> > Perhaps they should have stated that explicitly.  This was certainly the
> > case in High Guard.
> 
> Ah! But they didn't, because they didn't intend for it to be the same.  That's
> why we've got Joe Fugate explaining that the agility rating is your ability
> to 'alter your heading' for pity's sake, rather than the ability to alter
> your maneuver vector.  Since you can rotate all you want (with three degrees
> of freedom, no less) and still end up presenting a 'ballistic' rather than
> a maneuvering target, I reject this view utterly.

I don't know where Joe Fugate says that, but the book in question should
probably be scrapped.  As you say, he can spin all he like, it won't bother
my meson gunner!  :-)  At least, not unless he also turns on the drives and
changes his course.

> > > Note that if a ship is powering weapons the "excess" power can be negative
> > > thus subtracting from the ship's ability to maneuver.
> > 
> > Not by the above definition.  Excess power = power output - power used by
> > systems other than manoeuvre drive.  If this is negative, you need a bigger
> > power plant or smaller systems.  If it is zero, the ship's agility is zero.
> 
> I use this terminology to make it explicit that I mean exactly what High
> Guard meant, as opposed to certain folks around here (-8, who feel that
> the power used _by the drive_ should be included, leaving excess power as
> anything over and above that normally used by the drive (overloading!).

Now I'm confused again.  Scott seems to be the "certain folk round here",
as his definition was:
> "Excess Power": Is the amount of power left over after all systems have
> been powered (Sensors, Weapons, Drives, Environ, Comm, etc. etc.)

In any ship I designed under High Guard, "excess power" by this definition
was zero, or slightly positive - I tried to make the power plant just capable
of powering everything on the ship, usually adding a few more lasers if I had
spare power available.

MT's definition of "excess power" is a bit vague: "power left over from the
power plant after all of the craft's other components have been powered".
It doesn't define "other components", though.  If that includes the manoeuvre
drive (as in Scott's version) then it's useless.  If it doesn't include the
manoeuvre drive (which is how I interpreted it, being a High Guard veteran)
then the equation in the manual works just fine.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2755
Subject: Re: (2748) Proposed article about TML 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 02:20:30 EDT
From: carson@tron.bwi.WEC.COM


  Make sure you cover the fact that their are gateways to other email
systems such as compuserve and mcimail.

  For compuserve replace , in user id xxx,yyyy with . and add
compuserve.com giving xxx.yyyy@compuserve.com.

  For mcimail it's userid@mcimail.com.


Dana Carson
UUCP:carson@tron.UUCP 
     carson@tron.bwi.wec.com
     ...!uunet!tron!carson
AT&T: (301) 765-3513
WIN: 285-3513


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2756
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 08:20:18 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Nobility in Traveller

A very good article on nobles of the Imperium is in Travellers' Digest
Number 9, the oh-hell-somebody-just-shot-the-Emperor issue announcing
the birth of MegaTraveller. However, if you don't have that one, I can
answer your questions with a reasonable degree of authority. 

<pause as Metlay dons his Historian hat>

Based on how the GDW/DGP Traveller universe works, Dominic, you blew it
bigtime when you let two characters roll up random dukes and duchesses.
On the IMperial noble rankings, the ducal seat is the highest to which
anyone can ever hope to aspire without assassinating the Emperor! A duke
not only has Imperial powers of fleet command and revenue from planets
under his sphere of influence, but also owns fiefdoms of his own that
his household administers directly. The same is true of other nobles,
but the difference where a duke is concerned is SCALE: a duke has direct
control over anywhere from two to six entire PLANETS as personal fiefdoms
(read: as far as the Emperor is concerned, those worlds are the duke's 
personal property), and administrative power over an entire SECTOR! That's
sixteen subsectors, and usually hundreds of planets, that need to be 
administered. And administered DIRECTLY, not through a bureaucracy.

A duke can take vacations for brief periods on his own fief-worlds, or
extended ones due to health reasons, but not without causing some measure
of concern on the part of his government officials. He will NEVER leave
his sector of power unless on extremely important affairs of state, for
example to visit the Emperor for some reason or another, and he leaves his
power base for as little time away as possible. He will NEVER travel
incognito unless his life and future are on the line (Norris retrieving
the vital document he needed in the 5FW), and on any other occasion his
travels are widely publicized and treated with HUGE fanfare-- he will
have no more chance of a quiet trip than an American President would.
He has effectively infinite wealth and infinite resources to call upon,
up to and including entire Naval fleets and entire planetary treasuries.
If he DOES join a party, each and every adventure must revolve around him
and only him, and the party will essentially be part of his huge retinue.
There are only a few dozen dukes in the entire Imperium, if that many,
and each and every one is known by name by every schoolchild in the state.
The oligharchic nature of the Imperium makes nobles of the higher ranks
especially revered, and that means a duke will be well-known and received
in pomp wherever he goes. Period.

Oh, and I assume the duchess is the duke's wife? Two of them in the same
room would never happen except on state visits to Capital, otherwise;
that means that one or the other spouse is actually a consort, and enjoys
a lot of the privileges but little of the actual power. Two dukes of two
sectors adventuring together as part of a party is utter ridiculousness.
ONE is too, but two basically brands the adventure as impossible....

My advice is that you scale the characters back to an absolute maximum
of Social 13, and maybe only 12. Most barons have a fair amount of power
of their own, and receive good treatment when they travel, but administer
only sections of worlds (or entire, small worlds) and have little clout
beyond their systems. A marquis would have some power and influence over
a subsector or two-- that's often fifty worlds-- as well as having an
entire world as a fiefdom, and by that level, his movements are newsworthy
and he is an unsuitable party member. I find that if the players treat the
nobles as they should, any noble over rank 12 utterly trashes game
balance. Good luck!

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2757
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1991 13:33 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Agility.....


>Ok, High Guard functioned like this:  A ship with power plant-2 and
>maneuver drive-2 automatically becomes agility=2.  In order to have
>a functioning maneuver drive, you had to have a power plant factor
>equal to the maneuver drive thus a ship with the above plants will
>always be agility=2 when not powering lasers (energy wpns etc). A
>hit to the power plant reduces the agility of the ship by that amount.

I believe it was more a function of m-drive. A minimum P-plant 2 was needed to
run a maneuver-2. Most ships usually had much higher P-plants.

>Now, when a High Guard ship attempts to escape, the ship relies on
>agility to do so, not maneuver drive.  So a 3-G ship with agility=3
>can escape from a 6-G ship with agility=1.
Two points. First the High Guard sytem was far more abstract than the MT
abstraction. Secondly. Agility and M-drive was almost synonymous in High Guard
which is not true any more (to belabor the point).

>Rationalization:  The 6G ship's power plant is being drained away
>from the maneuver drive and it is not putting out 6-G's, it is putting
>out only 1G.

Not necessarily. I believe what it meant was an abstract way of representing
evasiveness. Besides if the 6-G P-plant is only putting out 1-G, why not just get
a 1-G drive and use the space for s-thing else.


>In view of the MegaTrav design rules this does not translate unless
>we do the following:

Why does it have to translate? I think part of our problem is an attempt to High
Guardize, Megatraveeler starship combat system. I wish GDW had totally redone the
system and left no references to High Guard. Basically for all practical
purposes, Megatraveller is an entirely new game from Traveller. In many ways even
the universe is quite different.

>Agility may not exceed maneuver drive rating.
>(No more agility=6 1-G drive ships...)

So??? Were there ever any such ships? High Guard certainly disallowed it and so
does MT.

.
.
.
.
various eqns deleted
>Note that if a ship is powering weapons the "excess" power can be negative
>thus subtracting from the ship's ability to maneuver.  This is what Rob
>refers to as "Double Dipping".

What you still haven't made clear is how your agility explanation is more
rational. Are the M-drives of a 6-G agility 3 ship pulling actually 9-G
acceleration!!! These eqns are just as arbitrary as the one in MT.


>His opinion is that we should use the loaded weight for the above
>calculations and I concur.  How often are ships flying around with
>no fuel and no cargo?  

But since there are anti grav modules on board, does the loaded weight really
matter?? I think it was more a question of mass and inertia then weight. However
I do tend to agree with this as it will make all agilities more sensible, just
as adding the mass of armor has.

>He also suggests that the 5.4 in the above
>be 10 as would occur in his thrust based maneuver drive calculations
>(for grav based not thruster based vehicles).  That is, in a small
>vehicle using standard grav propulsion, such as a 10 ton fighter, the
>acceleration is the thrust divided by the loaded weight, and the
>thrust is conveniently equivalent to the power input to the grav
>units in MW multiplied by 10.

Why 10?? It is still arbitrary. I would prefer 5, as I personally think that all
ships are too over agile anyway. 

>Translation:  Algebra into English:
>When a ship does not have power for all its weapons, it may divert
>power from the maneuver drive.  Diverting power will reduce the
>output of the drive.  It is possible to overload the engines, but
>that may result in damaging them.  The time allowed for overloading
>them for large increases in performance is considerably less one
>starship combat round.

Most starships according to Starship Ops manual use overdrives for short periods
routinely to get off planets. Why can't this overdrive ability be considered a
ship's "agility" in combat. It would explain why it is useful in combat. A 6-G
ship all of a sudden pulling 24-G(even for 30 sec) can screw up any one's aim
especially at stellar distances. Assume a 6-G agility 6 ship making 24-G bursts
or 6-G lateral thrusts for 30 sec every 5 minutes can be about 50km from its
predicted location.
 

>On a different note:

>Aircraft Agility
>In my opinion, aircraft agilities are far too low.

>Consider: A disp=40 6-G grav fighter: Agility=6, vs.
          F-14 Tomcat: Agility=6
>In a turn, A Tomcat uses its wings and lifting surfaces to pull
>a high G turn at approximately 9 G's

>The Grav fighter (assuming it has wings) has 1/3 the wing area of a
>jet fighter and is many many many times it's weight.  (In 101 vehicles
>there is a Zho grav sled that weighs close to 180 tons, a displacement
>of 2, and wings? It weighs close to what a B-52 does and is smaller
>than a Cessna and they expect to get lift?)  It can get little if any
>lift and must rely on it's grav units to turn it.  These as we said
>before are only 6G's.

>Result:  In a fast turning Dogfight the Tomcat can run rings around
>the Grav fighter.  Of course the Tomcat has no inertial comps and so
>the pilot takes a beating on the inside, but he will always be able
>to get the advantage of the grav fighter.

Again the question is whether starcraft "agility" has any meaning beyond MT
combat. A grav fighter agility 6 can produce SUSTAINED 6-G turns for 20 min. If
you take my above explanation it can pull up to 24-G for short periods with no
discomfort to its passenger. A Tomcat pilot doing 6-G turns for 20 minutes....!!!

I think COACC is terrible in its most interesting and useful part - the air-space
interface combat involving aircraft and space craft. It is not clearly detailed
and really makes no sense. It makes no real effort to explain any such combat
even though it claims to be basically about this concentrating more on air-air
and air-ground combat. In many ways it is a parallel set of rules to the starship
combat rules.  

>Conclusion:  I believe that aircraft agility should not be limited to 6,
>but 9 (the physical limit of a pilot).  At TL 10, when inertial
>compensators are used the agility could go even higher.

I presume you mean for COACC. If you intend to give space fighters involved in
MT starship combat agility 9 then there is a major problem. An Agility 9 TL15
fighter(<100t) with Model 9 comp will be impossible to hit except by a spinal PA.
An agility 11 fighter will be totally impossible to hit.


>Scott Kellogg

Ameer



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2758
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1991 16:11 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: The SHADO fleet (TL8 System Defence)

Hi,

Some of you may think I flipped when you see the below designs,
but, I just got hold of some old video tapes and got to
thinking about this....

Besides Mike mentioned the Shado Fleet last week anyway...
Those of you who never heard of Shado, and the show UFO...
Put this down as TL8-9 system defence stuff

Sky One TL8

CraftID:  Air/Submarine Type SSF, TL8, MCr 22.81262
Hull:     (9/23) Disp=10, Config=1AF, Armor=40C, Length=35m, 
          Unload=134.25, Load=135
          SafeDepth=660m, CrushDepth=990m
Power:    Fusion=14.83MW, Dur=24hrs
Loco:     (7/15) EXPFusionRocket=810t, MaxAccel=6.00, NOE=120,
          (1/2) StdGrav=135t, Surface=945kph, Dived=945kph,
          AirTop=4200, AirCruise=3150, Agility=6
Comm:     Radio=System*2
Sensors:  AW-RADAR(Planet), RDF, LaserSensor, PasIR, LightAmp,
          ImageEnh,
          ActObjScn=Dif  ActObjPin=Dif  PasEnScn=Imp
Off:      HPt=1
               Missile=x01
               Batt      2
               Bear      2
Def:      DefDM+10
Control:  Computer Mod/2bis*2, HUD*1, ElectronLink*6
Accom:    Crew=1(Pilot=1) Seat=Aedequate*1, BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:    Fuel=.67Kl, Mag=1Kl (5 B-rnds), (Possible Cargo=1.5Kl)
          ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Mod, AcousticSig=Strong

Carrier/Attack Sub TL8/9 "Skydiver" Class

CraftID:  Carrier/Attack Sub, Type SSAN, TL8,
          MCr 500.008055+SkyOne
Hull:     (270/675) Disp=300, Config=1AF, Armor=40C,
          Length=110+SkyOne(35m), Unload=2653t,
          Load=2871t+SkyOne(135t), Dived=4050t+SkyOne=135t,
          SafeDepth=660m, CrushDepth=990m
Power:    (10/20) Fusion=870Mw, Dur=6hr (infinite in water)
Loco:     (14/27) HydrofoilTop=330kph, Min=220kph
          (58/116) MHD, DiveTop=152kph, DiveCruise=40kph,
Comm:     Radio=System*3, RadioJam=System
Sensors:  AW-RADAR=FarOrb, ActSonar=Reg, PasSonar=Cont,
          Magnetometer, Radiation, Environment, RDF, ImageEnh,
          Headlight*10, VideoCamera, RadarJamm=FarOrb
          ActObjScn=Rout ActObjPin=Rout
          ActAudScn=Rout ActAudPin=Rout
          PasAudScn=Simp  PasAudPin=Simp
          PasEnScn=Imp
Off:      533mm Torpedo Tubes*4
Def:      NoisemakerTube*4
Control:  Computer=2bis*3, HUD*17, ElectronicLink=17
Accom:    Crew=6(Command=1, Bridge=2, Flight=1, Engineer=2)
          SmStateroom=6, BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, AirLock*3
Other:    Fuel=2.61KL, Fuel Pure=5min, 533mmMag=18Kl: 12 rnds,
          Cargo=200Kl, ObjSize=Avg, EMlevel=Mod,
          AcousticSig=Strong
I tried making Skydiver at TL 8, and you can't get a fission
plant to hydroplane.  So the reactor is the only TL9 element
Sky one... Well, It can't get lift from it's stubby
wings/diving planes, so I added TL9 grav to make it fly.
     For those of you who don't know, SkyOne is carried on the
bow of skydiver, and is launched from underwater.

Interceptor TL8

CraftID:  Interceptor Type IF, TL8, MCr 24.99325
Hull:     (9/23) Disp=10, Config=7AF, Armor=40C,
          Unload=122.88, Load=123.65
Power:    Fusion=14.83MW, Dur=14/42
Loco:     (7/14) EXPFusionRocket=742t, MaxAccel=6.00, NOE=120,
          Agility=6
Comm:     Radio=System*3
Sensors:  EMM, RADAR(FarOrb), RDF, LaserSensor, PasIR, LightAmp,
          ImageEng, Radiation
          ActObjScn=Rout ActObjPin=Rout PasEnScn=Imp
Off:      HPt=1
               Missile=x01
               Batt      1
               Bear      1
Def:      DefDM+10
Control:  Computer Mod/2bis*3, HUD*1, ElectronLink*4
Accom:    Crew=1(Pilot=1) Seat=Room*1, BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:    Fuel=10.08Kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Faint

Ground Speeder TL 8

CraftID:  Ground Speeder TL 8 Cr 26435
Hull:     (1/3) Disp=1, Config=4AF, Armor=8C,
          Unload=39.12 Load=4
Power:    (1/2) MHD=.8Mw, Dur=10hr
Loco:     (1/2) Wheels, P/W=211, Road=300kph, Off=90kph
Comm:     Radio=Cont
Sensors:  Headlight*4
Off/Def:  HPt=1
Control:  Electronic*3
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver, Passenger=3) Seat=Room*2, None*2
          BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:    Fuel=.7kl, Cargo=.54, ObjSize=Sm, EmLevel=Mod
The show had the coolest car ever designed.

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2759
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 21:44:08 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: re: nobles


	Actually, (contrary to Metlay's post...) I was under the impression 
that the average Duke was in charge of a Subsector, not a full sector.  
Norris, for example, was only the Regina subsector duke, and there have been
subsequent mentions of other Duke (actually, Dutchess of Mora whatshername 8-)
level personae in the marches.  So it's not _quite_ as bad as you made it out
to be.

	That does not mean that a Duke, even a subsector duke, is playable...
as the US Secret Service currently does, there is _nothing_ that they will
be allowed to do without having their security people there.  Until you
drop down to Baron, they're unreasonable to play.  (Even a Marquis will be
about as constrained as a modern superpower leader...).

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

